Ask Tim Grey

Today’s Question: How do I retain capture information in an image edited in Photoshop from Lightroom Classic? When I edit an image and save it either as a PSD and then look at later and open the Get Info data, it only shows the date of modification, not the capture date. Sometimes I want to find that original image and it’s tough when my catalog is so large and I’ve edited the photo a year or more later.

Tim’s Quick Answer: The derivative image created with this workflow will retain the original capture date and other metadata you had updated. You just need to use software such as Lightroom Classic (or Bridge for those not using Lightroom) rather than the operating system to view the image metadata.

More Detail: When you create a derivative image based on an original capture, such as by sending an image to Photoshop from Lightroom Classic using the Photo > Edit In command, the derivative image will inherit the metadata from the original image. That includes the EXIF metadata from the camera such as capture time, camera gear info, and exposure settings, as well as any metadata updates you’ve applied such as star ratings and keywords.

The confusion in this case comes from the fact that when you use the Get Info (Macintosh) or Properties (Windows) command to view file information in the operating system, you only see the date the file was created and the date the file was modified, not the date of capture from the camera EXIF metadata. Those dates will obviously not match the original capture date, since you are creating the derivative image after the original had been captured (potentially years afterward, for example).

The solution is to browse the image metadata for the derivative image using software such as Lightroom Classic (or Bridge), which enables you to see the original capture date that is inherited from the original image, in addition to the date the derivative file was created and modified.

Because of all this, you can locate a derivative image in Lightroom Classic (or Bridge) based on the capture date, such as by using the Capture Date option for the Sort popup on the toolbar below the grid view display. For example, if the derivative image and the original capture are in the same folder, or if you browse the All Photographs collection in the Catalog section at the top of the left panel in the Library module, the two files will appear next to each other because their capture times will match.

Today’s Question: There are some keywords in the Keyword List [in Lightroom Classic] that show a zero to the right of the keyword. Can I safely delete these?

Tim’s Quick Answer: Yes, you can safely delete keywords that have not been assigned to any images, assuming you don’t want them on the Keyword List for future reference.

More Detail: The Keyword List on the right panel in the Library module in Lightroom Classic includes a list of all keywords that have been assigned to images in the current catalog. That includes keywords that may have been assigned to images and later removed, or that were added manually to the Keyword List without having been assigned to any images.

The number to the right of the keywords on the Keyword List indicate how many photos in your catalog have that keyword assigned to them. If a value of zero is shown, that means the applicable keyword is not currently assigned to any images in the catalog.

If you want to remove the keywords that aren’t assigned to any images, you can right-click on the keyword and choose “Delete” from the popup list. You can also select one or more keywords on the list and click the minus (-) button to the left of the Keyword List label to remove the keywords.

Today’s Question: When I make a virtual copy of a processed image, all previous processing history is lost, and the only history documents creation of the Virtual Copy. Is there any way to retain that previous History or to import it into the Virtual Copy history?

Tim’s Quick Answer: No. A virtual copy retains all adjustments you’ve applied to an image, but not the list of history states in the History section. The history states are retained for the original image, of course.

More Detail: When you create a virtual copy by right-clicking on an image (or going to the Photo menu) and choosing “Create Virtual Copy” the history for the virtual copy will initially only show a step for “Create Virtual Copy” with a reflection of the date and time you did so. The virtual copy will inherit all metadata updates such as star ratings and keywords, along with all Develop module adjustments. It is just the History panel that won’t reflect the steps that had previously been applied to the original image.

The virtual copy will then retain its own history moving forward based on changes applied to the virtual copy as opposed to the original image the virtual copy was created from. This allows you to have two (or more) distinct versions of the same image.

Note, by the way, that metadata updates applied to a virtual copy are not applied to the original, and vice versa. For example, if you waited to apply keywords to the image until after you had created a virtual copy, you would need to synchronize metadata updates if you wanted to apply the same updates to both the virtual copy and the original.

Today’s Question: As a follow-up to your answer about Denoise, why is the Raw Details checkbox disabled when I enable Denoise?

Tim’s Quick Answer: When you use Denoise in Camera Raw or Lightroom, the Raw Details feature is enabled automatically and can’t be turned off.

More Detail: Raw Details is an option that enhances existing detail in the image. It is automatically enabled when you use either Denoise or Super Resolution. That is why the checkbox is disabled (but turned on) whenever you enable Denoise or Super Resolution.

You can also use Raw Details as a standalone feature if you are not using Denoise or Super Resolution for an image. However, based on my testing the Raw Details feature has very minimal impact on a photo when you’re not using either Denoise or Super Resolution.

Today’s Question: I’m wondering if I should try to use the AI-powered Denoise tool on all my images (including low ISO and well-lit scenes) versus using Manual Noise Reduction? Or are there times when using the manual method could be better or at least get the same noise-reduction results as using AI to reduce noise?

Tim’s Quick Answer: While I generally consider it safe to use the AI-based Denoise feature on most images, it is important to be sure the strength setting is kept low enough to avoid excessive smoothing in the image.

More Detail: In my experience the AI-powered Denoise feature in Camera Raw and Lightroom can provide excellent results for reducing the appearance of noise for many images. However, it does include a risk of loss of perceived sharpness and detail for some images when the strength setting is set too high.

Interestingly, for images that exhibit very little noise the results of Denoise are often very good, with a reduction in noise but without a loss of perceived sharpness most of the time. However, if the strength is set too high the smoothing of the image can cause a degradation in perceived sharpness. This can be a particular problem for images with a high degree of fine detail, for example.

The greatest risk for excessive smoothing tends to come with images that exhibit considerable noise. For example, with night sky photos I’ve often seen that strong Denoise settings result in inadequate removal of relatively large areas of noise artifacts such as color tints, and a sometimes extreme loss of detail in the image.

Therefore, I recommend carefully evaluating the image while zoomed in to make sure Denoise is not causing any problems with excessive smoothing. With many images, as long as the strength setting isn’t too high, the results with Denoise can be excellent. For images where Denoise causes more problems than it solves, the manual noise reduction feature can be used instead.

Today’s Question: I recently started looking at the Keyword Suggestions in Lightroom Classic, and from my admittedly limited experience it seems like the suggestions are somewhat random. How does Lightroom Classic determine which suggestions to offer?

Tim’s Quick Answer: The keywords listed under Keyword Suggestions in Lightroom Classic are based on patterns of how keywords have been used, particularly in the context of multiple keywords matching across other images.

More Detail: The keywords listed under the Keyword Suggestions heading in the Keywording section of the right panel in the Library module can sometimes seem quite random. For example, looking at one of my photos captured on Rapa Nui (Easter Island) two of the suggestions are “Croatia” and “Opatija” (a city in Croatia).

Those two suggestions don’t seem to have any connection to Rapa Nui, and yet the suggestions make perfect sense. The photo I was looking at includes moai statues, and so among other keywords that had been applied was “statue”. One of the photos I captured in Opatija, Croatia, was of a statue overlooking the sea, and I had assigned “statue” as a keyword to that photo.

So, Lightroom Classic is looking for patterns related to keyword use, and offering suggestions based on that use. In the absence of other connecting keywords you might simply see some of your most frequently used keywords, but in many cases the suggestions will be a good fit.

For example, if I assign a keyword of “Palouse” to a photo captured in the Palouse region of eastern Washington State, the keyword suggestions include “wheat”, “barn”, and “farmhouse”, among others. Similarly, if I add “wheat” as a keyword to a photo, I would expect the suggestions to include things like “crop duster”, “Palouse”, and “barn”.

Admittedly, because it is common for the Keyword Suggestions to include keywords that don’t actually relate to the current image, the value of this feature can be a bit inconsistent. In my view the Keyword Suggestions list is best used for a quick review to make sure you haven’t forgotten any keywords for a photo, rather than as a primary way of assigning keywords to an image.

Today’s Question: In Lightroom Classic I can’t crop outside of the image the way I can in Photoshop. Is there a setting to change this?

Tim’s Quick Answer: No, but based on an update to Camera Raw, I expect that Lightroom Classic will include the ability to use Generative Expand to crop an image beyond the crop area.

More Detail: In Lightroom Classic you’re not able to expand the crop beyond the image area. The only exception to this (for now at least) is that if you have used one of the adjustments that enables you to transform the shape of the image, you can crop into the white space formed in that process. For example, if you use the Guided Upright feature to straighten a photo of a building, you can extend the crop out into the white space created when the image is transformed in that process.

However, Camera Raw was recently updated to include a Generative Expand option, which uses AI to fill in empty space beyond the existing image area. This is enabled by turning on the “Enable Expand” checkbox on the Crop & Expand tab.

Adobe generally maintains parity between Camera Raw and Lightroom, though features are sometimes added to Camera Raw before they make it to Lightroom. I therefore expect that Generative Expand will be included in a future update to Lightroom Classic, in which case it would be possible to expand a crop beyond the image area, and to fill that new image area using AI-based Generative Expand.

Today’s Question: When I click on the crop tool in the Develop module [in Lightroom Classic] I don’t get the usual “rule of thirds” grid. I get a series of diagonal lines similar to the rule of thirds. Also, if I drag one edge of the crop box two sides are moved rather than one.

Tim’s Quick Answer: You can change the overlay by choosing an option (such as Thirds) from the Tools > Crop Guide Overlay menu. To adjust one side of the crop box at a time, you can unlock the aspect ratio setting by clicking the padlock icon to the right of the Aspect label on the right panel.

More Detail: There are a variety of overlay shapes available when using the Crop tool in Lightroom Classic, which can be selected from the Tools > Crop Guide Overlay menu while in the Develop module. There are a variety of options related to different composition concepts, such as Thirds for the rule of thirds or Grid to assist with proper alignment of horizontal or vertical lines.

In addition to being able to select an option from the menu, you can also cycle through the various options by pressing the letter “O” on the keyboard. Holding the Shift key while pressing the letter “O” will cycle through different orientations for overlay shapes that aren’t symmetrical.

When the aspect ratio for the Crop tool is locked, dragging a single edge will cause two sides to be adjusted, to maintain the selected aspect ratio. If you want to be able to crop freeform to any aspect ratio, such as by adjusting only one side of the crop box, you can turn off the aspect ratio lock. This control is represented by a padlock icon, with the shackle closed to indicate the feature is locked or open to indicate it is unlocked. Simply click on the icon to toggle the setting.

Today’s Question: Is there a limit on how many adds one can make to a mask?
I had a situation where I could not complete a mask in Lightroom Classic. The image was of a pile of cannon balls at an old military fort. It would not select the whole pile at once. I would add to the mask to incrementally get the whole pile – almost. After about 6 add steps, it would not allow any more. It just ignored the add command.

Tim’s Quick Answer: There isn’t a specific limit to the number of mask components you can create for an image, but it is limited by system resources such as memory.

More Detail: The masking feature in Lightroom Classic (or Camera Raw) is relatively resource-intensive, which can lead to performance degradation or even the exhaustion of system resources. This is particularly an issue when using a large number of masks or complicated masks the involve a large number of components.

You can often improve this issue by simplifying a mask to the extent possible. For example, rather than adding a separate mask component for each cannonball in the image referenced in the question, you could use the Brush to paint over all the cannon balls in a single mask component.

You can also minimize this issue, of course, by using a more powerful computer. In particular, having adequate system memory (RAM) and GPU memory (VRAM) can have a big impact. Other resources such as the processor (CPU) and adequate available hard drive space can also impact performance.

This issue is compounded by the fact that the software doesn’t generate an error message when you aren’t able to add an additional mask component. Hopefully that will be resolved by Adobe in a future release so the software doesn’t just give the impression that it is ignoring you as opposed to not being able to execute the command for you.

Today’s Question: I rename all images on import into Lightroom Classic, including a sequence number at the end. I then sort by Capture Time, but the images are not in numerical order by the new image number in the filename. If I select view by File Name, they will be in numerical order by image number, but not in capture time order. How can I correct this other than by renaming after import?

Tim’s Quick Answer: You simply need to make sure the Sort popup in the Import dialog is set to “Capture Time”, so that renaming as part of the import process will assign the sequence number in order based on capture time.

More Detail: It is easy to overlook the Sort popup in the Import dialog when importing new photos into Lightroom Classic, because during that process it doesn’t generally seem important what order the images are displayed in. Instead, you may be focused on confirming the other settings related to the images being imported.

However, if you’re renaming photos with a sequence number during import, that sequence number will be assigned based on the sort order that was established in the Import dialog. That’s the same for renaming later in your workflow, where the sort order determines how the sequence number is assigned.

Therefore, in general, if you’re renaming photos in Lightroom Classic you’ll want to set the Sort popup (whether in the Import dialog or in the Library module) to “Capture Time”, so that the file renaming will be based on the order the photos were captured. That is particularly important when including a sequence number as part of the file renaming structure, since you would generally want that sequence number assigned based on the capture order of the images.